Its Not About Me, its About Us, or Actually Me and Us
I've had several conversations over
the last couple of weeks with different people on some different subjects, so
I'll relate some of them here and make a weak attempt at synthesizing all of
this.
...I know and have known many Muslims over time, but most of them, quite frankly, were the equivalent of C & E (Christmas and Easter) Christians, so its sort of hard to take them seriously. At any rate, I mentioned that in Orthodoxy, you had to be careful with fasting because if you are invited to someone's house during one of the fasts, and they offer you non-fasting food, you should accept so as not to offend and cause them to stumble.... At any rate, in Islam, you are required to fast because God is more important than the other person.... The man in Kabul facing execution is doing so because apparently he has insulted Allah, and Allah must need some sort of protection.... We are careful not to cause others to stumble, as it may impair their walk, and certainly doesn't help us. There are limits to this, as the case where if we help someone who has been sinning to not sin, then this is a good thing.
...Almost everyone phrased things in terms of the fact that they just ignore what is going on in the larger Church, and seek to maintain their own personal faith.
...So, finally, I was talking to a priest in the ECUSA earlier today, and he said a big barrier to his leaving is that he has been charged with being a pastor of souls.
...So Islam is confused in that they seem to think God needs things, and will harm others to give God what he needs.
...I know and have known many Muslims over time, but most of them, quite frankly, were the equivalent of C & E (Christmas and Easter) Christians, so its sort of hard to take them seriously. At any rate, I mentioned that in Orthodoxy, you had to be careful with fasting because if you are invited to someone's house during one of the fasts, and they offer you non-fasting food, you should accept so as not to offend and cause them to stumble.... At any rate, in Islam, you are required to fast because God is more important than the other person.... The man in Kabul facing execution is doing so because apparently he has insulted Allah, and Allah must need some sort of protection.... We are careful not to cause others to stumble, as it may impair their walk, and certainly doesn't help us. There are limits to this, as the case where if we help someone who has been sinning to not sin, then this is a good thing.
...Almost everyone phrased things in terms of the fact that they just ignore what is going on in the larger Church, and seek to maintain their own personal faith.
...So, finally, I was talking to a priest in the ECUSA earlier today, and he said a big barrier to his leaving is that he has been charged with being a pastor of souls.
...So Islam is confused in that they seem to think God needs things, and will harm others to give God what he needs.
This will be a more rambling entry than most, for
which I apologize, but a great many thoughts are sort of colliding at the same
time. I've had several conversations over the last couple of weeks with
different people on some different subjects, so I'll relate some of them here
and make a weak attempt at synthesizing all of
this.
Last week I had the opportunity to discuss fasting with a Muslim colleague of mine. He is a very observant Muslim from Nigeria, so I figure his view on things probably reflect Islam in a more general sense. I know and have known many Muslims over time, but most of them, quite frankly, were the equivalent of C & E (Christmas and Easter) Christians, so its sort of hard to take them seriously. At any rate, I mentioned that in Orthodoxy, you had to be careful with fasting because if you are invited to someone's house during one of the fasts, and they offer you non-fasting food, you should accept so as not to offend and cause them to stumble. This can be overdone at times, as people will use this as an excuse not to fast, but it is a good principle. At any rate, in Islam, you are required to fast because God is more important than the other person. Offending them is apparently not an issue. I think, in a way, it points out a major flaw within Islam. They think fasting and other disciplines are done for God's benefit. The man in Kabul facing execution is doing so because apparently he has insulted Allah, and Allah must need some sort of protection. Christianity, on the other hand, understands that God needs nothing. If he truly was hungry, he wouldn't ask us for food. So when we fast, go to confession, pray, etc. it is so that we grow closer to God. It is the process of theosis . We are careful not to cause others to stumble, as it may impair their walk, and certainly doesn't help us. There are limits to this, as the case where if we help someone who has been sinning to not sin, then this is a good thing. However, not fasting is only a sin insofar as we are guilty of a lack of obedience. It can also be construed as sinful to the extent that it inhibits our growing closer to God because we have become too prideful. So, while salvation is, to a degree, about us, it is also about our relationship to our brother.
At a meeting today, several people were discussing their view of the situation in the ECUSA with regard to them. Almost everyone phrased things in terms of the fact that they just ignore what is going on in the larger Church, and seek to maintain their own personal faith. One even stated that she goes to meetings and sort of pretends to go along with what is happening, but only for the weekend. Then she can return and have her personal faith again. Time after time, people spoke of their personal faith as if that was all that mattered. They had forgotten their brethren, they had forgotten the Church. It is certainly true that to be a member of the Church you need to also have to have a personal relationship. That has been a problem since the days of the King David and before. However, the relationship with the Church is also important. It is the Church that is the pillar and bulwark of truth , not the individual. It is the Church that is the assembly of God (by definition), not the individual. You are not saved in a vacuum. You cannot be Catholic in a vacuum. So, again, you cannot escape the other people in this mix.
So, finally, I was talking to a priest in the ECUSA earlier today, and he said a big barrier to his leaving is that he has been charged with being a pastor of souls. He cannot leave them behind. So, you see, he has it right. He has to take responsibility for others. Just as I must take responsibility for the souls in my charge (namely my family), he must take responsibility for the souls in his charge. This puts him in a distinctly more complicated situation, but there you have it.
So Islam is confused in that they seem to think God needs things, and will harm others to give God what he needs. Evangelicals are mistaken in that they think that it is only their personal relationship with God that matters. Modernists are mistaken in that they think their own gratification is more important than anything else. A true Orthodox Christian is concerned that the entire Church, that means themselves and their brethren, are growing closer to God. Now, if only everyone could get this straight.
Last week I had the opportunity to discuss fasting with a Muslim colleague of mine. He is a very observant Muslim from Nigeria, so I figure his view on things probably reflect Islam in a more general sense. I know and have known many Muslims over time, but most of them, quite frankly, were the equivalent of C & E (Christmas and Easter) Christians, so its sort of hard to take them seriously. At any rate, I mentioned that in Orthodoxy, you had to be careful with fasting because if you are invited to someone's house during one of the fasts, and they offer you non-fasting food, you should accept so as not to offend and cause them to stumble. This can be overdone at times, as people will use this as an excuse not to fast, but it is a good principle. At any rate, in Islam, you are required to fast because God is more important than the other person. Offending them is apparently not an issue. I think, in a way, it points out a major flaw within Islam. They think fasting and other disciplines are done for God's benefit. The man in Kabul facing execution is doing so because apparently he has insulted Allah, and Allah must need some sort of protection. Christianity, on the other hand, understands that God needs nothing. If he truly was hungry, he wouldn't ask us for food. So when we fast, go to confession, pray, etc. it is so that we grow closer to God. It is the process of theosis . We are careful not to cause others to stumble, as it may impair their walk, and certainly doesn't help us. There are limits to this, as the case where if we help someone who has been sinning to not sin, then this is a good thing. However, not fasting is only a sin insofar as we are guilty of a lack of obedience. It can also be construed as sinful to the extent that it inhibits our growing closer to God because we have become too prideful. So, while salvation is, to a degree, about us, it is also about our relationship to our brother.
At a meeting today, several people were discussing their view of the situation in the ECUSA with regard to them. Almost everyone phrased things in terms of the fact that they just ignore what is going on in the larger Church, and seek to maintain their own personal faith. One even stated that she goes to meetings and sort of pretends to go along with what is happening, but only for the weekend. Then she can return and have her personal faith again. Time after time, people spoke of their personal faith as if that was all that mattered. They had forgotten their brethren, they had forgotten the Church. It is certainly true that to be a member of the Church you need to also have to have a personal relationship. That has been a problem since the days of the King David and before. However, the relationship with the Church is also important. It is the Church that is the pillar and bulwark of truth , not the individual. It is the Church that is the assembly of God (by definition), not the individual. You are not saved in a vacuum. You cannot be Catholic in a vacuum. So, again, you cannot escape the other people in this mix.
So, finally, I was talking to a priest in the ECUSA earlier today, and he said a big barrier to his leaving is that he has been charged with being a pastor of souls. He cannot leave them behind. So, you see, he has it right. He has to take responsibility for others. Just as I must take responsibility for the souls in my charge (namely my family), he must take responsibility for the souls in his charge. This puts him in a distinctly more complicated situation, but there you have it.
So Islam is confused in that they seem to think God needs things, and will harm others to give God what he needs. Evangelicals are mistaken in that they think that it is only their personal relationship with God that matters. Modernists are mistaken in that they think their own gratification is more important than anything else. A true Orthodox Christian is concerned that the entire Church, that means themselves and their brethren, are growing closer to God. Now, if only everyone could get this straight.
Posted: Sat - March 25, 2006 at 04:27 PM
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Published On: Dec 28, 2006 09:23 AM
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Published On: Dec 28, 2006 09:23 AM